It's All True..I'M A Muslim
(or An Hour on the 5Live Messageboard)
Here's an exchange between me (the black type) and Boy Davey (in red) this afternoon on the subject of the proposed building of a 70,000 capacity Mosque at Abbey Mills, West Ham. Now please bear in mind that my first post on this thread was posting number 167 so things were already cooking along usual religious/political lines and as far as I could tell only 1 female (Teresa Mayer) had contributed to the thread and her objections were on size not religion.
A lot of the posts on this thread, and others which are connected with Islam or Muslims, show how insecure and threatened white males in this country feel.
Are you a muslim? If so, that would explain why you seem to think that it's only men on these boards and that you seem to disregard the idea women would have any thoughts at all worth listening to.
More people watch Football League (not Premiership) each year than go to Anglican church
Amazing how, when calculating the number of Christian worshipers in the UK, muslims only quote how many ANGLICANS attend church and leave out the Catholics, who are also Christian.
There's a wonderful irony here, the former Hugeunot chapel in Brick Lane became a Methodist church, then a synagogue and then a mosque as that part of the East End was used as a transit camp over four hundred years - now because Muslims are settled and would like to build a permanent monument to their religion its wrong.
You addressed your own comments here. For 100s of years, this country has tolerated and, indeed, welcomed many faiths to integrate amongst us. hence the multi use of the chapel in Brick Lane. What we DO take exception to is for any faith to seek to build a monument some 10 times the size of the largest church which houses the country's established church.
WHY do you NEED a mosque that size? For what purpose? That question has been asked over and over again, without an answer.
We Brits may be tolerant, but we're not daft. We know that, when people avoid answering a question, there's something to hide.
I am a white Anglo-Saxon male as people who regularly contribute to these boards and others know.
I have not disregarded women's views at all - but apart from Teresa I haven't read any - if I have missed them I apologise.
I didn't realise that omitting catholics from my post could be viewed as a religious crime - to all you catholics out there in messageboardland I apologise - I have catholic and anglican relatives - religion is not important to me, the person within is.
I personally don't need a mosque of any size, but then again I don't need a cricket ground or rugby stadium but I wouldn't campaign against Lords or Twickenham being extended - as they have.
Next (and make it sensible this time please!)
Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law.
Disregarding the Catholics ISN'T a crime. But, by omitting them DOES make statistics of CHRISTIAN churchgoers a bit disingenuous.
As for MY personal faith. If you read other boards on here, you'll find I'm agnostic. I don't oppose this super-mosque on grounds of religion. I oppose it on the grounds of necessity. Why is such a structure required? What use would it be put to? Why should Islam build the largest mosque in the world in London, rather than an Islamic country?
Are you SURE you're not a muslin Baldinio?Really?Seems strange to me that a "white Anglo Saxon male" would be SO supportive of a religion that threatons a white Anglo Saxon way of life...
I can't see where I've been supportive BoyDavey - I've read my posts again they don't support Muslims in anyway.I made a comparison between football attendances and church going to illustrate that objections seemed far fetched on purerly religious grounds. I know the area very well so I can't understand objections on aesthetic grounds. If it is felt that the Mosque will provide some cover for non-religious activities then I wish people would come out and say so instead of hiding behind a litany of verbal wankage.
I'm sorry if I've misjudged you Baldinio. However, all your posts seem to have has a pro-build flavour to them.
if you read some earlier posts, including mne (unless the posts have been pulled by the mods), I actually stated (as did others) that I fear that the mosque could be used for purpose other than worship.
On the BBC boards, one has to be a little, shall we say, circumspect, in case the mods get their red pens ready.
See, we loved each other after all.
8 comments:
I admire your patience, Paul. I looked at the board on a few occasions today and realised I either had to steer clear of it or get into a slanging match with someone. I stayed away.
Its easier for men not get upset by Radical Islam though as they do not have to face the gender issues that some feel are a step backwards in the on going campaign for equality.
Lucy,
What do you make of it when Muslim women say that Islam liberates them?
Good question Shy and one that needs an essay in reply and not a few short lines.
I caught a program on BBC3 last night with 2 people who wanted plastic surgery. The aim of the program was to show them that they were just fine as they were and to help them to see themselves in a more healthy light.
It worked for one and not the other.
This in a small way is similar to women who say Islam is good for them.
To qualify this there are still Chritians who think similarly but increasingly they are being helped to 'see the light'
In the west we view everything in terms of our freedom, our choice. But as I pointed out in my post on being British this 'freedom' has given us the highest teenage pregnancies and abortions in Europe, highest illegal drug use in Europe and the highest gun crime figures outside of the States.
Freedom of choice comes with a heavy social price.
Of course the Burkha looks daft to us in the west but then are girls flashing their bits on a Friday night out any less daft?
Baldinio I agree both are extremes and both need the females involved to start having a bit ore self respect.
(If indeed the Burkha is worn through choice)
Paul,
Your remark about girls "flashing their bits" is interesting. In recent times there have been two groups of women that I have heard describe themselves as liberated. One group consists muslims and the other of western glamour models/porn stars. Very different, I'm sure you'll agree but there seems to be one thing in common. They're both doing what a lot of males in their respective societies approve of women doing.
As a resident who will be living a stones throw away from the proposed super mosque in West Ham I have to say I am very concerned about this building. I dread to think what living in this area will be like if this mosque is built. We will be subjected to daily loud calls to prayer which quite frankly is a violation of my rights to live in relative peace. Also the traffic will be terrible, Manor Road is already really busy and we don't need even more traffic. I can honestly say if this mosque is built then I'm moving out. Having had to visit Whitechapel over the years to go to work I know what to expect when a mosque this size is built. Whitechapel now has the largest Bangladeshi community outside of Bangladesh and several of my colleagues have suffered abuse both physical and verbal from gangs of Asian youths. Also there has been a number of incidents of muslims preaching on the street which I find intimidating and unnecessary. Consequently most white people I know steer well clear of Whitechapel and this could lead to segregation. People living in this country have a right to practise any religion but this should never impose on other peoples quality of life.
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